My Friends Don’t Like the Man I’m Dating!

I’ve been seeing a man I really like for about 4 months now, and we’ve been talking about taking the next step. We’re compatible with almost everything: desire to start a family, sense of humor, similar age and income, beliefs and values, and we even work in the same industry. He’s short and stocky (which I prefer), and can be argumentative. He’s also confident, smart, funny, and has an open, generous heart. The dates, sex, conversations, and all of that are GREAT! He’s met a few of my friends already, and it was good.

I’m falling in love with him, and I was so excited for the rest of my friends to meet him! It did not go well.

I know he was nervous and trying to make a good impression. There were 6 other people besides us, and it was probably a lot of pressure. But he argued with the host (a really good friend of mine and acquaintance of his,) insisted on helping my friend with cooking when she didn’t want help, and interrupted other people frequently. It seemed like he was trying to show off or brag a lot, too.

Afterwards while walking me home, he said he regretted the argument and could tell they didn’t like him very much. And he also mentioned that he disapproves of my friends’ lifestyle choices.

These people are my friends. They’re nurturing, creative, brilliant, and kind, and I love them. I don’t think it’s my responsibility to call him out in front of people, and it’s not my responsibility to apologize for him either. So, I didn’t. But I wanted them to like each other so much.

Does it have to be one or the other? Is it all lost? Can I patch this up? I don’t know what to do.

Ada

I’ve tackled this before from a woman who doesn’t like her boyfriend’s friends, but this is a new wrinkle on compatibility.

I’m wracking my brain and trying to think – out of all the women I’ve dated, has there ever been an instance where I didn’t like her friends? No. There’s not. That can be for many reasons: I’m an extrovert who chooses extroverted girlfriends, I’m comfortable in my own skin, I never really worry about impressing other people. Hell, if anything, I go in the opposite direction – if you don’t like me, you can go fuck yourself – which, strangely, produces really great results. People like confidence.

But it seems that your boyfriend’s confidence is not that deep. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy; most people are insecure about making a good impression and meeting friends and family. But moments like this ARE revealing – not just in how he handled himself in the moment, but how he followed up afterwards.

The kind of man you want to be with is the one who takes responsibility for his poor performance, rather than placing blame on others. I do this on a weekly basis – apologizing to my wife immediately, every time I say something insensitive or selfish. It’s literally the ONLY way to be a good partner. Otherwise you’re left with the worst-case scenario that all our readers know too well:

The guy who acts like an asshole who pretends he’s not acting like an asshole.
The woman who acts crazy who pretends that her behavior isn’t crazy.

The kind of man you want to be with is the one who takes responsibility for his poor performance, rather than placing blame on others.

Both are intolerable from the perspective of a partner. Thus, your issue isn’t with a nervous boyfriend who wanted to be liked by others and tried too hard; it’s with a man who put his foot deep down his throat and kept on talking.

You don’t need to call him out publicly in front of your friends. You don’t need to apologize to them on his behalf either. What you do need to do is have an honest, empathetic discussion with him that sounds something like this:

I love that you’re smart, funny, confident and opinionated. It’s what I fell in love with and what makes you such a great boyfriend.

That awkward incident with my friends? I’m only bringing it up again because I’m still thinking about it and want to get on the same page. I know how much you care about me. I know how it feels to want to make a great first impression. I know it didn’t go as planned. That’s fine. Shit happens. However, I’m still left with a bad feeling, which I know isn’t your intention. I feel bad that you felt bad. I feel bad that it was weird for my friends. I feel bad that you judged them and that they may have judged you. I feel bad that I don’t know when to bring you around them again.

A good boyfriend will appreciate how you delivered that message and say yes. A bad boyfriend will get defensive, shut down, and fight back.

What would make me really happy is if we were able to start over and you were able to diffuse any attention by taking responsibility for being overly aggressive the first time around. It’ll be quick, painless, and will make you more authentic, vulnerable and likeable to my friends so they can start to see the real you that I see every day. Is that something you can do for me? I’d hate to have to keep you separate from the rest of my life because you’re so special to me.

A good boyfriend will appreciate how you delivered that message and say yes. A bad boyfriend will get defensive, shut down, and fight back. Please come back and let us know what kind of guy you’ve actually got on your hands. Good luck.

63 Comments

  1. “He’s short and stocky (which I prefer), and can be argumentative”.
    “But he argued with the host (a really good friend of mine and acquaintance of his,) insisted on helping my friend with cooking when she didn’t want help, and interrupted other people frequently. It seemed like he was trying to show off or brag a lot, too”.
    Short man syndrome is an informal term and not a medical or psychological condition and goes by other names such as ‘Napoleon complex’. Technically it is a form of inferiority complex in which the person attempts to overcompensate for their perceived shortcoming. – dictionary.com

  2. AllHeart81

    Unconfident people come in all shapes and sizes. It’s strange to me when someone who is short, especially for men, that if they are short and do anything that is less than perfect, people are quick to put him that neat and tidy “napoleon complex” box. Not all short peoples reactions to events and situations is because of their height. This is frankly stereotyping and it’s not right. It also tells me more about what you may personally think about short people then why this man behaved that way.  Can we please remember that short people are people too who are just as complex and engage in behaviors for as many different reasons as taller people may, many of them having nothing to do with height? Thanks.

  3. Ada said: (original letter)
    “And he also mentioned that he disapproves of my friends’ lifestyle choices.”
     
    This sends up some yellow flags for me.  Perhaps that’s because I lack context.
    Viewing the boyfriend’s comment in the best possible light, perhaps Ada’s friends are like one friend of mine, whose life has been a series of poor decisions … though he has generally been happy with the outcome.  (One example – he has a “cankle” because he wrecked his motorcycle while driving drunk.)  There aren’t many sane people (including me) who would give my friend’s decisions the gold seal of approval.
    That said, I don’t think it’s my responsibility to approve/disapprove of my friends’ lifestyles.  This is doubly true for other people’s friends.
    Without additional context, Ada’s boyfriend’s statement sounds judgmental and intolerant.
     
    KK, (#1)
    I can’t find any research that indicates that Napoleon Complex actually exists.  I can find research showing that men who feel less masculine are more predisposed to violence, but nothing that ties those feelings (or aggressive behavior) directly to height.
    As a side note: when the press reported the results of this study, they claimed that “Napoleon Complex is Terrifyingly Real” … yet another incident of the news misrepresenting the results of a study.

  4. Hi Karl R,
    “I can’t find any research that indicates that Napoleon Complex actually exists”.
    I’ll see what I can find on it later. If nothing else, it’s a stereotype and like all stereotypes, there’s some truth to it. Whether it’s a kernel of truth or overwhelmingly true is for others to decide.

  5. KK,
    Good luck with that research.  Napoleon was above average height for his time, but his enemies spread propaganda that he was short in order to undermine him.
    From what I can tell, average and tall men engage in the same behaviors in the exact same proportion.  But if I do it, people say I’m bombastic, obnoxious, argumentative, bullheaded, rude, or just a dick.  They never say that I have Napoleon Complex … but that’s because I’m 5’11”.

  6. Karl R,
    You’re correct. The studies I found (one by Oxford) weren’t very impressive, in my opinion. There were a few well written articles by psychologists but regardless of how well written or convincing, they’re still nothing more than theories and not based on facts.

  7. Spot on, Evan. Tall or short, that dude sounds insecure and a little unkind. If those are his qualities, they’ll soon reveal themselves again — and if/when they do, that’s your cue to exit.

  8. To the OP, I mostly agree with Evan’s recs, though I might actually keep it a bit more concise, mentioning I felt awkward and uncomfortable.
    Here’s the thing- it’s a red flag. Pay attention and just observe, going forward, without trying to manipulate anything or being hyper-vigilent- this does not exclude talking about it, mind you.
    You are still learning about your bf and all the data is not in yet (sorry if sounds clinical, in some ways it is- a la CEO of your own company, as Evan says).
    Time will clarify, just be sure to pay attention to your gut.

  9. Short or not, the guys sounds like an a-hole with major issues. I wonder what was the age of those involved. May be if they’re under 25 it is excusable. Older than that? What kind of adult is unable to peacefully carry himself over a laid back dinner at someone’s place? Is this some kind of an outstanding social skill these days, wtf. Also i wonder what kind of “lifestyle choices” he disapproves of? Is that a euphemism for anti gay? If so, I would drop him pronto.

  10. “Also i wonder what kind of “lifestyle choices” he disapproves of”?
    Classic deflection technique used in order to avoid responsibility for one’s own actions. “You were really rude to my friends”. “Yeah, well, your friends are a bunch of degenerates”.

  11. Emily, the original

    Stacy2,
    Also i wonder what kind of “lifestyle choices” he disapproves of? Is that a euphemism for anti gay?
    I was thinking the same thing. A homophobic comment from an intolerant person. Or maybe her friends don’t have the kinds of jobs or live in the kinds of apartment/drive the kinds of cars he approves of  ??  Hard to say.

  12. GoWiththeFlow

    Or someone smokes.  Or is overweight.  Not great for them, but as long as they aren’t blowing smoke in your face or forcing you to eat food you don’t want to what’s the big deal?

  13. ‘Tis OK not to approve of another’s lifestyle, it’s not OK to feel obligated to mention it. Short man syndrome is alive and well; have a 5’4″ colleague the epitome of this, has to prove his “superior” intellect so much most of us avoid him.

  14. Noquay said, “‘Tis OK not to approve of another’s lifestyle, it’s not OK to feel obligated to mention it”.
    Completely agree.  : )
    “Short man syndrome is alive and well”
    Agree here too despite not being able to prove it. I’m fine with my “anecdotal” experience.

  15. Do you also use other prejudicial terms to describe people according their immutable traits?
    If a black man  mistreats you, how do you characterize him?
    Do you characterize tall a-holes the same way you do short ones?  Do they also have this syndrome?
    You are a bigot.  Noquay is also a bigot.  I don’t understand how you can selectively choose to observe a negative attitude in a specific group of people, and then attribute it to all of them.  If I were mugged by a black person, or even mistreated in some other ways, by a few black people, I wouldn’t conclude black people are aggressive, or criminal.
    I think the problem with women like you two, is that you have been conditioned to dislike shorter men.  Although you realize this stigma is grossly unfair, you would rather perpetuate it because speaking otherwise would put you under social stress from friends and family.
    It’s cowardice.
     

  16. Great advice from Evan, pretty silly comments about short man syndrome. Come on, she said the guy was awesome for her and he did fine with her first group of friends. Nobody is perfect, and the conversation Evan suggested is just right for figuring things out.
     
    Also I think this guy should not be judged so harshly for not approving of lifestyle choices, without knowing more. We have no idea what those lifestyle choices are from the post. I dated a woman once whose friends were a mess: drug use, heavy alcohol use, and cheating on their partners. The attitude that we should never judge is just wrong, we all judge. Some have good judgment, some have poor judgment. He should not be attacked for that without understanding more.
     
     

  17. Hi Evan – you know what is funny about this post? You wrote a script for Ada!! You’ve mentioned how you were a screenwriter. You definitely have a talent for writing. Communication is such a key thing in relationships and I believe a lot of times people don’t say things because they don’t know how to articulate them. So they do passive-aggressive things instead – ghosting is a great example of that.
    I just wanted to say thank you for your scripts and to encourage you to keep on doing that for your clients. You gave a script in one of your posts about how to communicate to a guy that I had a great first date but I wasn’t interested. I had been on several first dates in the past year and actually just slept with the guys that I wasn’t interested in – it was a bizarrely effective technique for them to never call me again. Now that I’m looking to find a new relationship, I’ve decided to instead just text the guy your simple script. It really helped me and I wanted to say thank you!!!

  18. Most of my short male friends growing up drove jacked up four-wheel drives…just sayin.

  19. In 5 & 6
    Love the absolute tidal wave of conjecture.
    As mentioned elsewhere, if a single woman decided to be a mother via turkey baster, I would disapprove of her life choices. And I have arguments. Namely that depriving a child of a father for egotistical reasons is a bad approach to parenting. Also mentioned adoption would be a most benevolent solution for such a woman.
    WHERE in the OP did homosexuality rear its head?
    If homophobia was the crux of the matter, may we remind you girls that it could be “prejudice” but it can also be “dislike”, by definition?
    And also that the man is entitled to HIS own opinion on the matter?
    I’m happy for you that you swallowed the propaganda wholesale. Or did you not notice the Hollywood agenda / propaganda? They keep trying ramming certain things down our throats.
    Gays are 3% of population. To be representative, no more than 3 characters in 100 should be gay.
    Interracial couples are relatively scarce. In the name of normalization and commonality, every 2nd couple or so is interracial.
    People are tuning out of TV shows because this is getting annoying.
    Once married to a shrink / sexologist, we had a conversation years ago about the propagandized normalcy of homosexuality. We both had gay friends, so I did a quick review for my ex of their personal histories. Since we consider a very narrow group, the review is merely anecdotal. But in each case, upbringing and development had been from abnormal to aberrant. That the outcome was unusual was thus no great surprise. OK, it’s normal to turn gay if you have an overprotective battleaxe of a mother. A case in point!
    All that being said, I generally disapprove of stupidity. Dropping a perfectly decent chap for being homophobic would be silly, and any woman doing that should end up a spinster. Expressing disapproval of certain lifestyles to their host or other guests would have been insensitive or even confrontational. Mentioning his opinion to his gf is not! It is a topic of discussion. If she is a readily melting snowflake, HE’s the one who should walk away.
    If you lived in SF, CA (we used to jokingly say home of the fruits and nuts), LA, NYC or Key West, there are large gay populations. If you live anywhere else, not so much! If you’re surrounded by a gay crowd and you are not a hairdresser or active in certain segments of the arts, we might also wonder! Slightly stereotypical, but marginally true!
    The issue of gay marriage was mishandled. It should have been simple: You may contract to have a gay union and have a ceremony if you wish, or do so through cohabitation and essentially common law rules. You may then say you are married. We can live with gays having same “spousal” rights, but we needn’t have called it “marriage”. Thus, rights would have been granted equally, and the word marriage would have been protected in its symbolic sanctity.
    What has been promoted as a tool for social engineering, in case you missed it, is a way of destroying the fabric of society. Once degenerate, Western society bereft of values will crumble on its own. .
    As to “best” advice for the OP, you will live with your partner. Nobody else! Friends are important. The ones you have as a married couple may not be the same people as when you were single. Life being what it is, you may not even live in the same area. It is obvious that the couple has been together for a time, and since it is the first instance of friend-partner interface, you don’t see those people that often. So take things in stride.

  20. FG,
    “Mentioning his opinion to his gf is not!”
    Under normal circumstances it is not. Since he acted completely inappropriate though, it would have been wise to keep his mouth shut for now and just own up to his own bad behavior.
    As to your other points, I agree with some of them. I can only think of a few areas where logic is thrown completely out the window. Gay rights is one of them. The term, homophobia, for instance is a head scratcher for sure. Saying you either fear or hate a group because you don’t approve of their lifestyle? Interesting indeed. I have absolutely zero desire to spend my Sundays or Monday nights watching football. No interest at all. I think they’re overpaid. I don’t care who the top players are or the best coaches or teams. But what if I were told people who don’t watch football are intolerant and evil? That I must either be fearful or hateful. That I take issue with. By definition, such a claim would be ignorant.

  21. GoWiththeFlow

    KK,
    Football fans don’t get fired from jobs or kicked out of apartments due to their being fans.

  22. GWTF,
    Discrimination is wrong. The average person doesn’t give a damn and doesn’t discriminate. Having something shoved down your throat is another story.
     

  23. GoWiththeFlow

    How is that gay people existing is having it “shoved down your throat’?

  24. GWTF,
    “How is that gay people existing is having it “shoved down your throat’?”
    Existing? Really? You’re much too intelligent for that. I think.
    There are many examples. But a most recent one is being forced to use the same public restroom as a grown man. If states pass laws making this legal, there will be disastrous results. What about my rights? Anyone claiming to be trans can now use the women’s restroom because they should have rights to do so? Not a good idea.
     

  25. GoWiththeFlow

    KK,
    “But a most recent one is being forced to use the same public restroom as a grown man.”
    Ahhh, the transgendered are freaks argument.
    I know a woman who transitioned to a man.  He is legally married to a woman.  He uses the men’s restroom and has never had someone freak out or run away screaming, because the point of the matter is, he’s now a man.
    “If states pass laws making this legal, there will be disastrous results.”
    What disastrous results?  A woman, who was formerly a man, will be able to go into a star in the women’s restroom, do their business, wash their hands and leave?  You’re kidding yourself KK.  You have very likely been in a public restroom when a transgender woman was taking care of business and you didn’t even know it.
    If by disastrous results you mean a straight man is going to dress up like a woman so they can enter a women’s restroom and rape women, well, you have a very low opinion of straight men!  The cases where women have been attacked in public restrooms by men are rare, and the factors that made the attacks possible were that the woman was isolated and alone.  Alone as in there was no reason for a rapist to dress themselves up like a man!
    “What about my rights?”
    What rights of yours are being violated if a former man, now a woman, uses the same public restroom as you?

  26. GWTF,
    Why is it necessary in the first place? Are transgenders afraid for their safety? Hmmm… How does that play into YOUR low opinion of straight men?
    I have stated more than once that normal, straight men aren’t the problem. Predators are; and yes, most predators are a small portion of men. Twist that however you’d like.
    If it’s such an important issue, maybe you should try to get it passed in your area and the rest of us can see the results. You know, test it out for the rest of the country.

  27. KK – The bathroom thing. Sounds like your issue is with straight men. The idea that a straight man might try to pass themselves off as a transgender just to use the women’s restroom doesn’t say anything bad about the transgender community. Nor should that community that is being marginalized be punished for the actions of those moronic straight men.
     
    Here’s an idea. Let’s punish those idiots that try that instead of transgender people!
     
     

  28. Morris,
    I don’t have an issue with straight men. I have an issue with being forced to share the same restroom with men. Normal straight men aren’t going to attempt to use the ladies room. Only predators will. This is an open door policy to let them in. How will you enforce who is legally allowed to enter each restroom? Are we going to put a special tranny stamp on your drivers license that you must display before entering the ladies room? Give me a break.
    If 3% of the population is LGBT, what percentage do you think is trans? 1% or less? So you’re proposing that 99% of the population be affected by legislation to give special rights to less than 1%? Got it.
    I’ve got a better idea. Each gender continues to use their own restrooms. If you’re trans, use which one you identify with and no one will know. That way if a creep with bad intentions tries to use the ladies room he can still be arrested.
    Women aren’t the only ones concerned. Men who care about girls and women are concerned as well. It takes very little foresight to realize this is a really bad idea.

  29. GoWiththeFlow

    KK,
    ” Are we going to put a special tranny stamp on your drivers license that you must display before entering the ladies room?”
    Transgendered people have the gender on their birth certificate and driver’s license changed to the gender they transitioned to.  You ARE NOT in the same public restroom–separated by stall doors–with grown men.  You are in the same public restroom as men who transitioned to women.
    “I’ve got a better idea. Each gender continues to use their own restrooms. If you’re trans, use which one you identify with and no one will know. “
    LOL! you just made the argument for trans people to use the restroom of the gender they identify with, i.e.  Male to female transgender people using the women’s restroom.  And you’re right:  No one will know because they have women’s clothing and hairstyles.  If a male to female trans woman tried to go into the men’s room, well that would be possibly disruptive.

  30. GWTF,
    “You ARE NOT in the same public restroom–separated by stall doors–with grown men.  You are in the same public restroom as men who transitioned to women.”
    If the law changed, it would no longer be illegal for men to enter the women’s restroom.
    “LOL! you just made the argument for trans people to use the restroom of the gender they identify with”
    They already do! Therefore, no laws need to change. 

  31. GWTF,
    “Transgendered people have the gender on their birth certificate and driver’s license changed to the gender they transitioned to.”
    Which is exactly why there’s no need to change the law.
    ” You ARE NOT in the same public restroom–separated by stall doors–with grown men”
    If the law changes, it would no longer be illegal for men to go into the women’s restroom.
    “LOL! you just made the argument for trans people to use the restroom of the gender they identify with”
    My argument is that a special law isn’t necessary in the first place.

  32. KK – I’m a bit confused. As people already have mentioned. It seems you’re ok with trans using the bathroom they identify with. I agree. And that’s exactly what has been going on until now. It’s conservatives that are trying to pass laws prohibiting that exact thing that has caused the liberal community to try and pass laws to protect them.

  33. Morris,
    “It’s conservatives that are trying to pass laws prohibiting that exact thing that has caused the liberal community to try and pass laws to protect them.”
    Maybe that’s true where you live. I don’t know. Where I live, it has always been illegal to enter the restroom of the opposite sex. Of course, with the exception for young children going to the restroom with their mother. In my area, the LGBT community and their supporters have proposed a bathroom ordinance. The premise is that it would no longer be illegal to use or enter either bathroom for either sex. The idea behind it being that there would be no way to discriminate or make it illegal to use the restroom of your choice. So, they want to change the laws already in place. If you’re transgender, you can already use the restroom of your choice. There isn’t any law prohibiting that.
    Concerns were raised because there is potential for misuse and abuse. The proposed bathroom ordinance was not passed. They have said they will continue in their fight for equal rights for all. It doesn’t even make sense really. They’re already protected by the law and what they’re proposing could potentially endanger others.

  34. KK – A transgender woman is a woman. So she IS using the bathroom she is suppose to. I’m a bit doubtful things are happening the way you describe. I’ve never heard that the LGBT community is trying to pass laws so anyone can use any bathroom. I guess anything is possible. Where is it that you live? I’d like to check this out myself.

  35. KK –  it’s really simple. A woman(trans or not) uses the women’s facilities.  A man(trans or no) uses the men’s facilities. It’s worked pretty good so far. You do realize transgender people have existed before all these laws right?
     
    But conservatives want to stop that. And the reason is always the same. Some strait dude might pretend to be a transgender woman and use the women’s bathroom. I’m having a hard time understanding why it’s so hard to understand this and how it’s wrong to punish transgender people for this.

  36. GoWiththeFlow

    Holy crap FG are you saying being gay is aberrant behavior?
    “Once married to a shrink / sexologist, we had a conversation years ago about the propagandized normalcy of homosexuality. We both had gay friends, so I did a quick review for my ex of their personal histories. Since we consider a very narrow group, the review is merely anecdotal. But in each case, upbringing and development had been from abnormal to aberrant. That the outcome was unusual was thus no great surprise. OK, it’s normal to turn gay if you have an overprotective battleaxe of a mother. A case in point!”
     

  37. GoWiththeFlow

    “All that being said, I generally disapprove of stupidity. Dropping a perfectly decent chap for being homophobic would be silly, and any woman doing that should end up a spinster.”
    Wow!  Just wow!

  38. @ GWtF
     
    I also chuckled at the irony of disapproving of stupidity before writing something utterly daft! Lol.

  39. I think, it is better to end up “a spinster” whatever that means in the modern world or “get pregnant by a turkey baster” (rolling my eyes..) than to mix your genes pool with such clearly deficient genes AND put up with such partner for the duration of the upbringing. Just saying.

  40. For an MD, you seem to easily miss the nuance of my comment. It may be a normal result of abnormal or aberrant developmental conditions or environments. Not the same as saying it is in itself aberrant!
    As previously stated, and for a handful and thus anecdotal review of those cases we had on hand, or knew well, we could not find a single case arising without odd complications readily available in their past. Not saying they don’t exist! Merely saying that out of a dozen cases from widely different backgrounds and cultures, not a one! My ex was a bright gal that was quite capable of defending a position. No arguments or objections arose! The merit of the case was solid. Tough!
    I’ll let the psych departments of universities debate it! If they can be objective in their analysis, which under the current climate of constrained views and political correctness, may not come to pass for some time to come. Let us say that the root-causes are not easily spotted, and the end-result is apparently not (or not often) an inner instinct.

  41. GoWiththeFlow

    “. . . you seem to easily miss the nuance of my comment. It may be a normal result of abnormal or aberrant developmental conditions or environments. Not the same as saying it is in itself aberrant!”
    And then you go on to cite your and your ex-wife’s “study” of friends.  Who’s being unscientific here???  Your series of 12 friends pales in comparison to numerous population statistics, brain imaging, and pheromone studies–actual scientific studies–that show homosexuality is a predictable biological variant in humans.
    If it is “stupid” for a woman to break up with a homophobic boyfriend, then it is “stupid” for her to break up with a boyfriend who doesn’t like of people who are a different race, people who are short, or people who have red hair and freckles.  Those are characteristics that a person is born with.  What is stupid is to call them “lifestyle choices.”

  42. The existence of a “gay gene”is still controversial science. How the DNA stretch is affected is also under study. If it is biological, so be it! I DID state quite openly that we had reviewed what we knew of personal histories of a few individuals. And that anecdotal reviews are rife with potential dangers when generalization is taken into account.
    As to the evidence you tender, incontrovertible evidence that gays may exhibit such biological discrepancies AFTER the fact does not surprise me.
    The crux of the matter is this, you dear statistical genius: are those same signs or evidence present BEFORE sexual orientation is declared? Given that 500 confirmation positives would require testing some 17,000 individuals, or if you wish to aim for the standard confirmation of a population of 1,000, over 35,000 test subjects would be required BEFORE sexual orientation gels, who paid for this? Nobody! So we have “after the fact” evidence, but no “Minority Report” style predictor!
    As to reasons to break up,, maybe the guy has “ginger phobia” 🙂 If the guy is a racist, that’s his problem! How does this interfere in their relationship?

  43. If the guy is a racist, that’s his problem! How does this interfere in their relationship?
    troll much?

  44. GoWiththeFlow

    FG,
    You brought up you and your ex’s little series of examining your gay friends’ upbringing to support your contention that there is “propagandized normalcy of homosexuality” in society.  Clearly you think homosexuality is abornmal.  
    You also clearly think that that it is nurture and not nature:  
    “But in each case, upbringing and development had been from abnormal to aberrant. That the outcome was unusual was thus no great surprise.”
    “As to the evidence you tender, incontrovertible evidence that gays may exhibit such biological discrepancies AFTER the fact {abnormal or aberrant upbringing} does not surprise me.”
    As for your argument that “battleaxe mothers” create gay people, there are plenty of heterosexuals who have overbearing mothers as well!  But don’t pay attention to straight people who come from “abnormal or aberrant” upbringings, it would blow your argument, wouldn’t it?
    Why would a woman break up with a “nice chap” who is homophobic?  Because he’s not a nice chap!  Homophobics, racists, and people who cannot tolerate people of another religion are psychologically inflexible and judgmental.  Not character traits that work well in relationships.
     

  45. I for one don’t give a shit about why somebody is gay. Their lifestyle choices are their own and do not impact me in the slightest. They should obviously have the same rights we all do, including the right to sign a legal contract called “marriage”, if they’re so inclined. Why would one care to “approve” or “disapprove” of this is beyond me, but if a [presumably straight] man spent too much time thinking about this issue i would NOT want to date him. Because he has issues. A normal position with regards to this from a straight male is complete neutrality.

  46. Agreed on their lifestyle.
    If it was in fact the issue with the OP’s “friends”, that might have some impact on the bf’s
    My statement on gay marriage, in terms of union / marriage, has simple general repercussions. NOT calling it marriage at the legislative level, but allowing all its rights. privileges and obligations, would have made a lot of people happy w/o taking away any rights.
    As to neutrality, approval or disapproval in the context of this tread is merely one of who you want to associate with, or not! He may dislike asociating w gays in the same way that you look down on people from the wrong area of town, or the wrong tailor / income / race (but you’re not a racist, we know), zip code, profession, education level, etc.
    Since we’ve gone off the deep end in terms of conjecture, this really is moot! Btw, I always love the pro-this or that rants, or anti-“people who think XYZ” when most people who hold these views do not rub shoulders with any of the types they defend. A kind of uneasy philosophical stance with no basis in reality! Lovely stuff!

  47. NOT calling it marriage at the legislative level, but allowing all its rights. privileges and obligations, would have made a lot of people happy w/o taking away any rights
    In the context of this particular subject, I would personally avoid dating people who need the above to be “happy”. Why would one care about the term used to describe e legal contract between two other people? I mean wtf, get a life. These are people who care about stuff that does not directly impact their lives. What this reveals is the whole new level of difficult personality. You know what I care about? Hitting my revenue target, burning more calories than I eat and making sure my family is provided for, among other things. What i can not begin to care about is who the Joe Schmoe from the corner apartment sleeps with and what they call their union… Because it has zero impact on me. And i don’t want to date people who care about such stuff. Because the next thing [that doesn’t concern them] they can begin to care about is, i don’t know, what I wear to work or something. F that.

  48. GoWiththeFlow

    “My statement on gay marriage, in terms of union / marriage, has simple general repercussions. NOT calling it marriage at the legislative level, but allowing all its rights. privileges and obligations, would have made a lot of people happy w/o taking away any rights.”
    So let’s drop the drinking from 21 to 18, because the later is widely used/viewed at the age when someone becomes a legal adult.  But saying we’re lowering the drinking age may make people unhappy, so let’s just say we’re conferring full adulthood on 18 year olds.  Because the most important thing is people’s feelings, not civil rights, or the law.
    For all of your derisive talk of political correctness and special snowflakes, this particular argument is one a special snowflake would make:  “I don’t know. . . it just doesn’t feel right or sound right to call it marriage . . . because some people will be unhappy!  Can’t it be just like marriage. . . but not called marriage. . . because calling it marriage diminishes heterosexual marriage. . . and that violates my ‘rights. . .’”
    As for social engineering, yeah, allowing people with a state marriage license to inherit without paying taxes, file joint tax returns, be covered under a spouse’s insurance, having automatic medical decision making and POA rights when their spouse is incapacitated, etc.  absolutely NO social engineering happening there!

  49. Tron Swanson

    re: interracial couples: I live in a very small city in a very underpopulated state, and yet I see interracial and “inter-ethnic” couples all the time.

  50. Pray tell, where, oh where, did I say they did not exist? Or where did I object to them? 0_o
    8% of new marriages are interracial
    10% of unwed cohabitation couples are
    White & Hispanic – 37 percent of all interracial marriages
    White & Asian – 13.7 percent
    White & Black – 7.9 percent
    Lots of “in-betweeners”. Lots of American Indian & White. for the balance.
    If you live in the South, White & Hispanic is rather common, and if you live on the West coast, White & Asian would be fairly common. For obvious reasons.
    If you are white and married or lived with Jennifer Beals, you would be in an interracial relationship. And I would be jealous!!!! lol
    Just taking W & B, the above means 7.9% of 8% or of 10%… Got it? for a total of roughly 1.5%. So if TV shows you more than 1.5 couples per 100 as W&B (or B&W, same thing), they are portraying a specific view or pushing an agenda.
    Unless of course the fictional narrative of a show or movie calls for  all interracial couples to congregate in one spot. Then, ALL the couples save the outsiders would be interracial.

  51. FG – Vast majority of lead roles(and all speaking roles in general) go to white men. Like a ridiculous percentage. So is that an agenda???

  52. What a ridiculous statement. This is art not state school admission list. So, does showing all these supermen, spidermen and womderwomen and the like also pushing some sort of an “agenda”? It’s gotta be since I don’t see anyone IRL jumping on buildings lol.

  53. FG, there are so many ridiculous assertions compacted in such a small space in your posts it’s difficult to know where to start, but I’ll look at just a few. First, I’m not sure which shows/programs you’ve been watching where interracial couples are being paraded all over the screen in every scene. I certainly haven’t seen any. Regardless, you seem to be suggesting that anything that reaffirms the status quo is objective and neutral, whereby anything that disrupts it is based on a sinister agenda.
    However, you’re assuming that these things take place in some vacuum, absent any history of racial discrimination or widespread disapproval of interracial or gay couples. If a television show wants to use its platform to combat that kind of bigotry, then whether they end up offending old school conservatives like you shouldn’t hold them back.
    But leaving that aside, you seem to be deliberately overlooking the fact that to generate profits and ratings media companies and studios often misrepresent reality. For example, an increasing number of Americans are now obese. Are such individuals accurately represented in advertisements, movies, television shows and music videos in proportion to their share of the overall population? Something tells me you don’t object to that fact, and I doubt you would call such misrepresentation an ‘agenda.’

  54. Tron Swanson

    And who, pray tell, is behind this vast conspiracy, FG? The Reptilians? The Trilateral Commission? Or perhaps a group whose name you like to put in parentheses…?

  55. Evan Marc Katz

    I think KK and FG have to get a room where they can complain about what different people do behind closed doors. But it won’t happen anymore here. This convo is off-topic and over.
    (((Evan Marc Katz)))

  56.  I never really worry about impressing other people. Hell, if anything, I go in the opposite direction – if you don’t like me, you can go fuck yourself – which, strangely, produces really great results. People like confidence– I love this Evan, I Couldn’t said this any better!!!!

  57. Hey, let’s not all get side-tracked with all this talk of short men syndrome and assumptions about lifestyle choices. That wasn’t the purpose of the email that the OP sent…without the proper context we can debate that until the cows come home and still get nowhere. It’s a tough one, because you want your friends to like your partner and vice versa but that doesn’t always happen. I love the script that Evan has written, it’s so nuanced but addresses the issues directly. I’m learning every day from what he writes…
    I’ve learnt the hard way that if your friends don’t like your partner, it’s a massive red flag…particularly when the dislike is consistent from many different people and over a broad period of time. Hopefully the OP and her partner can save this situation and turn things around.
     

  58. I had a lot of friends not enthused about the fella I eventually married.  And he made pretty good efforts to be social, friendly and not obnoxious in any way.  They just said they  couldn’t quite explain it, but didn’t like him.  Fifteen years later…I got it.  Because he was just a pretender…an empty shell of a human being that sat in judgement of every one, cared for no one and just used people.
    So head’s up OP.  This fella’s behavior was not cool.  Really inexcusable and you need to really ask yourself why you are willing to tolerate that.  Do you want to spend your life with someone that will alienate people that you call friends, family, etc.

  59. Gustavo Woltmann

    Why your friend don’t like the man you are dating? If there is no bad reason then don’t listen to them. Trust your heart.
     
    – gustavo woltmann

  60. Wow-been off the blog for a bit and the comments are at an all a time low. Thanks for the good posts Evan.

  61. Mrs Happy

    Ada,
    it sounds like he was anxious. I’d give him more social chances with your friends and family, and just watch. If he can’t be comfortable in social situations, or act politely and reasonably normally, whether this suboptimal behaviour is due to anxiety or egocentricity, you can factor that information into your decisions about the relationship continuing.
    Regarding Evan’s “start over” comment, does this ever work? I ask because I hear “can we start over” a lot from American TV shows and I can never understand it. Once someone has done something, a person cannot forget it; there can thus be no real start over afresh, surely?

  62.  
    “RelationSHIPS sink when they have too many passengers.” And a sound, loving partnership is not ruled, adjudicated or managed by committee, whether friends, parents, colleagues or blog commentators.
    Every Tom, Dick and Harry or Moll, Nell and Sue can wade in with whatever suits their fancy. They are not you, and you are not them!
     

  63.  
     
    Holy cr–, this could have been the slogan, theme, and anthem for my past relationship.

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